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Abstract

s sort of misconception.</p><p id="d213">Atheists and agnostics do not believe in God because they are not convinced God exists, NOT because they want to rebel against God and want to go to hell. For them, hell does not exist, so it makes no sense to say they choose to go to hell.</p><p id="caaf">Such falsehood is meant to clear God of any responsibility of sending people to hell. To Christians, “people willingly choose to go to hell” sounds much better than “God sends people to hell”. But it’s nonsense, just like a robber trying to justify his crime by claiming the victims willingly handed over their wallets.</p><p id="eb60">If I am certain that God, heaven, and hell exist, I would want to go to heaven. Christians can’t tell me that, as a non-believer, I want to go to hell (so they can declare that my ending up in hell is all my fault). But to those like Dan Barker, Christians don’t have the right to tell them it was their choice to go to hell either. Yes, they may choose to reject God even in His face, but it does not mean they want to go to hell.</p><p id="a41e">A victim might decide to hold on to their wallet with a gun pointed at them, but it does not mean they want to die, and it certainly does not mean it is ok for the robber to shoot them.</p><h1 id="78bc">Christians deceive themselves when they say they freely choose to believe in God</h1><p id="2f78">I have already made my case that my hypothetical belief or submission to God should not be seen as a free choice, but rather a form of compliance.</p><p id="6338">How about Christians themselves?</p><p id="2a89">They may genuinely think that they chose to become Christians, but it does not mean much. People who suffer from <a href="https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22387-stockholm-syndrome">Stockholm syndrome</a> also believe their abusers are good people, and they feel they have a positive relationship with their abusers.</p><p id="c5fb">How do we tell the difference between a normal person in a normal loving relationship from another person with Stockholm syndrome in a toxic relationship? It’s not by how positive the ‘victim’ feels the relationship is, but by the nature of such a relationship.</p><p id="9251">When there is abuse, threat, or harm, it’s not a healthy relationship.</p><figure id="e2b1"><img src="https://cdn-images-1.readmedium.com/v2/resize:fit:800/1*GLekrWaCNdTmzEGIT7PYSQ.jpeg"><figcaption>Photo by Karolina Grabowska on <a href="https://www.pexels.com/photo/man-clenching-fist-near-a-woman-covering-face-while-sitting-4379912/">Pexels</a></figcaption></figure><p id="601d">Christians claim their relationship with God is like a parent-child relationship. Sometimes there is disciplinary action to make the children uncomfortable, but the intention is for their own good.</p><p id="d2e9">This analogy does not fly.</p><p id="1ba6">What kind of ‘good’ does throwing people in hell do for the people themselves? Perhaps you have a different view of hell. No problem. What about the disasters that God caused in the Old Testament, killing a huge number of pagans and Israelites alike? Those are not just disciplinary actions, but punishment in the form of death sentence. If your parents say they would kill you if you disobey them, it does not show genuine love, but manipulation. If they follow through, it’s even worse.</p><p id="3177">How could you have a healthy relationship when the other party threatens to end your life if you don’t ‘behave’? You can’t. You could choose to ignore the threat part or interpret it in such a way that it’s all your own fault if you get punished, but that’s exactly the symptom of Stockholm syndrome.</p><blockquote id="a9c0"><p>“The very concept of sin comes from the Bible. Christianity offers to solve a problem of its own making! Would you be thankful to a person who cut you with a knife in order to sell you a bandage?” ― <b>Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist</b></p></blockquote><p id="d5e5">Some Christians would say God is like a judge. But in normal circumstances, do you have a personal relationship with a judge in the courtroom? No, you don’t, and you shouldn’t. It’s actually a bad thing if you stand trial and you are a friend of the presiding judge. Not only might this friendship bring fair trial into question, but you are also much less likely to have a genuine interaction with the judge. You may have a neighbor who happens to be a judge, but your relationship would not be based on their job, but on their person outside the courtroom.</p><p id="8fbc">Hence, using the analogy of

Options

a judge is self-defeating. It actually strengthens my case that you cannot have a healthy relationship with God of the Bible.</p><p id="3eb8">Not convinced? Just ask yourself, if it is known that believing in God makes no difference to people’s destination in afterlife, how many Christians would be left?</p><h1 id="f124">In what context can one say it’s freewill?</h1><p id="2f74">This should be common sense, but just in case some readers struggle with this, I will briefly discuss this point.</p><p id="a845">If I want to invite someone to be in a relationship with me, I would not say, ‘If you are not going to be with me, I will make you suffer, but if you decide to be with me, I will share a lot of good stuff with you.’</p><p id="98ed">No, a healthy relationship starts with respect. I can show the other person how nice and caring I am, and wait for them to respond.</p><figure id="4b83"><img src="https://cdn-images-1.readmedium.com/v2/resize:fit:800/1*qnBXbQCnpb61TBx0PXXjKQ.jpeg"><figcaption>Photo by <a href="https://unsplash.com/@omarlopez1?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText">Omar Lopez</a> on <a href="https://unsplash.com/s/photos/friendship?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText">Unsplash</a></figcaption></figure><p id="a62b">Even if I am filthy rich, I would not tell them I will give them lots of money if they decide to be with me. That’s just manipulative. Their decision to be with me will not be completely out of freewill, for they are compelled by the lure of financial gains to be with me.</p><p id="f979">If for any reason they don’t want to be with me, I leave them be. I don’t chase after them and force them to be with me by using threats or coercion. When they have nothing to fear in saying no, but still choose to say yes, one can say it’s out of freewill.</p><p id="f30a">You may say, ‘But God-human relationship is different’. Yes, it’s different from human-human relationships, but not that different if the goal is to let me freely choose to engage in the relationship.</p><p id="d2e4">Suppose God does not focus on my sins, but on how He is willing to help me grow to become a better person. Suppose He does not try to impose His standards on me, but patiently explains to me how things work and why implementing His ideas in my life would benefit me. Suppose God says it’s not about Him; He just wants me to be happy and live a fulfilling and flourishing life. In other words, it would not be a ‘sin’ to not engage with Him. Suppose I ignore all His advice, and choose to be a bad person, He would be sad, of course, but He would not declare that I now deserve eternal damnation because I somehow ‘offended’ Him.</p><p id="ac25">If God appears to me and interacts with me in this manner, I would certainly be drawn to Him, and that would have been a more healthy relationship than what Christians claim to have with their God now.</p><h1 id="f8fb">Related reading</h1><div id="cae0" class="link-block"> <a href="https://readmedium.com/christianitys-focus-on-faith-makes-no-sense-aee30c933b50"> <div> <div> <h2>Christianity’s Focus on Faith Makes No Sense</h2> <div><h3>Faith is a poor criterion for judging whether a person goes to heaven or not.</h3></div> <div><p>medium.com</p></div> </div> <div> <div style="background-image: url(https://miro.readmedium.com/v2/resize:fit:320/1*p08i7CsZ6oatKuh2W43hPQ.jpeg)"></div> </div> </div> </a> </div><div id="1788" class="link-block"> <a href="https://readmedium.com/one-way-to-make-christians-instantly-toss-out-salvation-by-faith-2a088ca3526e"> <div> <div> <h2>One Way to Make Christians Instantly Toss out Salvation by Faith</h2> <div><h3>You may think that Christians are serious about this fundamental aspect of their faith, but you can actually ask them…</h3></div> <div><p>medium.com</p></div> </div> <div> <div style="background-image: url(https://miro.readmedium.com/v2/resize:fit:320/1*iuEGgNDdznLpXgopSaC7pg.jpeg)"></div> </div> </div> </a> </div><p id="6bc7">If you are not a Medium member yet, please consider signing up using my <a href="https://medium.com/@sttsai/membership">referral link</a>. I will get a small commission at no extra cost to you.</p></article></body>

If Jesus Appears to Me, This Is What I Will Do

Nothing dramatic, just what a regular person would do

Some Christians quote the Bible (usually Romans 1:20) to say that atheists know deep in their hearts that God exists, but they refuse to acknowledge Him because they want to live freely without restraint. Christians imagine that atheists have hardened their hearts, so they are not willing to look at all the evidence showing God is real.

It is difficult to read the words and deeds of Jesus and not believe that he is Messiah. — Richard Aberdeen

Obviously, the claim that atheists hardened their hearts is absurd and only reveals more about the people who say it than about atheists. But to make Christians happy, I am willing to go along and discuss what I will do if I am given undeniable evidence that God exists.

The way I respond to God

I have no intention of pursuing sinful life. I don’t smoke, drink or intentionally put other harmful substances into my body. I try to be an upright and decent human being because I respect myself. I have moral standards that come from my upbringing, education, reason, social norms, and other influences that have nothing to do with God. As a person who values facts, knowledge, and truth, this is what I will do if Jesus or God appears to me, showing me how real He is, how Christianity in general has got it right about Him, and telling me that by believing in him, He will forgive my sins, but denying him will result in eternal damnation.

I will kneel down and worship Him, declaring that I believe in Him and will follow His commands.

I am not going to be like Dan Barker, who, on several occasions, said he would not be able to call God a righteous and merciful God even if He appears to him. Dan would rather go to hell than spend eternity with this monster God.

I applaud Dan’s courage, but I can’t honestly say I will follow suit. Facing the threat of eternal torment, my own well-being is more important than standing up for the truth.

It’s not a decision out of freewill

Make no mistake. I would submit to God in that situation only because of fearing the prospect of unbelief. It’s like most people who live in a tyrannical country, paying lip service to the tyrant who holds the authority to kill them or leave them alone.

There is no freewill involved in all this. It’s more accurate to call it compliance.

When a robber points a gun at you, and says, ‘If you want to live, give me your wallet,’ it’s smart to hand over your wallet, but you would never say you do it out of your freewill. If the robber pleads not guilty in court, saying that you willingly handed over the wallet to him because you could have chosen to hold on to your wallet and let him kill you, no sane judge would buy it, and no one should.

In the same manner, Christians don’t get to say that non-believers choose to be separated from God, as if they make a conscious decision to go to hell. I am tired of dispelling this sort of misconception.

Atheists and agnostics do not believe in God because they are not convinced God exists, NOT because they want to rebel against God and want to go to hell. For them, hell does not exist, so it makes no sense to say they choose to go to hell.

Such falsehood is meant to clear God of any responsibility of sending people to hell. To Christians, “people willingly choose to go to hell” sounds much better than “God sends people to hell”. But it’s nonsense, just like a robber trying to justify his crime by claiming the victims willingly handed over their wallets.

If I am certain that God, heaven, and hell exist, I would want to go to heaven. Christians can’t tell me that, as a non-believer, I want to go to hell (so they can declare that my ending up in hell is all my fault). But to those like Dan Barker, Christians don’t have the right to tell them it was their choice to go to hell either. Yes, they may choose to reject God even in His face, but it does not mean they want to go to hell.

A victim might decide to hold on to their wallet with a gun pointed at them, but it does not mean they want to die, and it certainly does not mean it is ok for the robber to shoot them.

Christians deceive themselves when they say they freely choose to believe in God

I have already made my case that my hypothetical belief or submission to God should not be seen as a free choice, but rather a form of compliance.

How about Christians themselves?

They may genuinely think that they chose to become Christians, but it does not mean much. People who suffer from Stockholm syndrome also believe their abusers are good people, and they feel they have a positive relationship with their abusers.

How do we tell the difference between a normal person in a normal loving relationship from another person with Stockholm syndrome in a toxic relationship? It’s not by how positive the ‘victim’ feels the relationship is, but by the nature of such a relationship.

When there is abuse, threat, or harm, it’s not a healthy relationship.

Christians claim their relationship with God is like a parent-child relationship. Sometimes there is disciplinary action to make the children uncomfortable, but the intention is for their own good.

This analogy does not fly.

What kind of ‘good’ does throwing people in hell do for the people themselves? Perhaps you have a different view of hell. No problem. What about the disasters that God caused in the Old Testament, killing a huge number of pagans and Israelites alike? Those are not just disciplinary actions, but punishment in the form of death sentence. If your parents say they would kill you if you disobey them, it does not show genuine love, but manipulation. If they follow through, it’s even worse.

How could you have a healthy relationship when the other party threatens to end your life if you don’t ‘behave’? You can’t. You could choose to ignore the threat part or interpret it in such a way that it’s all your own fault if you get punished, but that’s exactly the symptom of Stockholm syndrome.

“The very concept of sin comes from the Bible. Christianity offers to solve a problem of its own making! Would you be thankful to a person who cut you with a knife in order to sell you a bandage?” ― Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist

Some Christians would say God is like a judge. But in normal circumstances, do you have a personal relationship with a judge in the courtroom? No, you don’t, and you shouldn’t. It’s actually a bad thing if you stand trial and you are a friend of the presiding judge. Not only might this friendship bring fair trial into question, but you are also much less likely to have a genuine interaction with the judge. You may have a neighbor who happens to be a judge, but your relationship would not be based on their job, but on their person outside the courtroom.

Hence, using the analogy of a judge is self-defeating. It actually strengthens my case that you cannot have a healthy relationship with God of the Bible.

Not convinced? Just ask yourself, if it is known that believing in God makes no difference to people’s destination in afterlife, how many Christians would be left?

In what context can one say it’s freewill?

This should be common sense, but just in case some readers struggle with this, I will briefly discuss this point.

If I want to invite someone to be in a relationship with me, I would not say, ‘If you are not going to be with me, I will make you suffer, but if you decide to be with me, I will share a lot of good stuff with you.’

No, a healthy relationship starts with respect. I can show the other person how nice and caring I am, and wait for them to respond.

Even if I am filthy rich, I would not tell them I will give them lots of money if they decide to be with me. That’s just manipulative. Their decision to be with me will not be completely out of freewill, for they are compelled by the lure of financial gains to be with me.

If for any reason they don’t want to be with me, I leave them be. I don’t chase after them and force them to be with me by using threats or coercion. When they have nothing to fear in saying no, but still choose to say yes, one can say it’s out of freewill.

You may say, ‘But God-human relationship is different’. Yes, it’s different from human-human relationships, but not that different if the goal is to let me freely choose to engage in the relationship.

Suppose God does not focus on my sins, but on how He is willing to help me grow to become a better person. Suppose He does not try to impose His standards on me, but patiently explains to me how things work and why implementing His ideas in my life would benefit me. Suppose God says it’s not about Him; He just wants me to be happy and live a fulfilling and flourishing life. In other words, it would not be a ‘sin’ to not engage with Him. Suppose I ignore all His advice, and choose to be a bad person, He would be sad, of course, but He would not declare that I now deserve eternal damnation because I somehow ‘offended’ Him.

If God appears to me and interacts with me in this manner, I would certainly be drawn to Him, and that would have been a more healthy relationship than what Christians claim to have with their God now.