A Conversation With Incels

Diving deep into the culture of victim-hood

Recently, I wrote an article titled An Open Letter to the Incel Community. It got a surprisingly positive response, especially from the amazing folks at The Bad Influence.

Commentary through my usual channels, Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin, and personal messages indicated that I was right on the money. The story resonated with many.

From the incel community on reddit, however, not so much. They didn’t seem to respond well to the article, and were eager to dismiss it.

I was successful in getting their attention with my article. It did exactly what I wanted it to do, which was to start a conversation, and then have their defenses kick in. So now I can analyze and blast right through those.

I wanted to understand them. I wanted to know where they were coming from.

What amazed me is the degree that they were willing to defend their failed beliefs.

One particularly angry reader circled the wagons.

Incels are victims. They aren’t doing anything “wrong” other then being cursed with poor genetics from birth. Having an ugly face is not a choice.

You really are stupid.

Listening to them, I came to understand that they are broken people who have never succeeded with women, and have no idea what success would even be like. Their world view revolves around the idea that being with a woman will never be a possibility. To even entertain the idea is tantamount to torture to them.

But one reader gave me a moment of honesty.

I don’t bother to try. I don’t see a “win”.

The overarching belief is that there are factors beyond their control that prevent their success with women, and every negative experience they’ve had so far reinforces that belief.

My goal here was to get everyone to question the underlying premise.

I asked the same question over and over again. “What is it that you really want?”

I wanted to see what would happen if I could present to them the argument that they could succeed in spite of physical attributes. Would they be receptive to the idea? Would they be willing to do any mental exercises? Would they be willing to test their theory?

Would they be open to the wonderful possibility that they might have been wrong all this time, and everything they want is within their grasp?

Unfortunately, no.

I’ve tried getting what I really want, and upon constant failure, I searched for the reason. That reason is the “blackpill”, although as a concept that word it can be replaced by “factual truths about human behaviour that most people deny being influenced by”.

When you spend your entire life being bullied, generally disliked and distrusted by others, even though you’ve done nothing to deserve it, you eventually start wondering why. Turns out, there’s a real, documented phenomenon called “the halo effect” that shows humans having an unconscious bias towards attractive people (thinking attractive people have inherently better personalities, like being more trustworthy, even if there’s no evidence of that). This is just the tip of the massive iceberg that is blackpill science.

“Blackpill” as explained to me, is a set of beliefs and pseudoscience designed to convince the incel that there are biological reasons why women will not choose them. It takes responsibility out of their hands.

I asked the same question over and over again. “What is it that you really want?”

Given the choice between holding onto their victimhood, and coming to understand how they can succeed, most choose victimhood.

They are not interested in taking steps to solve the problem.

I’m not capable nor willing to change my entire persona to fit into a cookie-cutter human, if that makes sense. I wouldn’t be comfortable with manipulating (charming/flirting) or lying (confidence) to other people, even if that were to be the solution to loneliness. That’s just not who I am.

The problem is more than a little concerning. In my previous article, I lamented the idea that no one was able to get through to Elliot Rodger, the perpetrator of the 2014 Isla Vista shooting (my alma mater).

“Getting through” might be more difficult than we realize.

Definite Major Purpose

Have a conversation with anyone who has reached success in any arena, and nearly every person will cite the idea from the book Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, about definite major purpose — the idea of committing to a goal, and doing whatever it takes to accomplish that goal.

In other words, those who want something bad enough will go after it, and won’t stop until they get it.

This, I believe, is the key reason that incels doom themselves to failure. Unable to fathom success, they reason it simply can’t be done.

On the other hand, if you were to place a determined person in a similar situation, they would say something like “I don’t know how to get from here to there, but there is a pathway, and I’m going to find it.”

And they would go about accomplishing their goal. Stumbling and bumbling all the way through, but always pressing forward, until they succeed.

I wonder then, what it would take for incels to consider the possibility that their premise is flawed.

For me, the moment occurred about 20 years ago when a friend took me out to a bar and I watched him approach and gain the attention of every single woman in the bar. By the end of the night, he took his pick of several candidates he was assessing throughout the evening.

I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. “You just can’t walk up to a stranger and come away with a date,” I thought to myself.

And yet, it was happening right in front of me.

I couldn’t unsee what I was seeing. The moment changed everything for me. It inspired me. If it was possible for him, I reasoned that it could be possible for me. All I had to do was figure out how this was happening, and if I worked at it long enough, I could succeed.

I realize, though, that what worked for me won’t work for them.

Place an incel in an identical situation, and they’ll come up with reasons that they aren’t actually seeing what they are seeing, or that it might work for some people, but not them. They will disregard the evidence in front of them to defend their belief.

Another reader explained:

You need to have scientific evidence to disprove that physical appearance is the basis of attraction. Until then nothing you say will matter, anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Of course, we all know that they would disregard any scientific evidence that doesn’t support their victim narrative.

What do you really want?

To a degree, I get it. There is a phenomenon I observe when some people fall short of success. They come up with justifications as to why it really wasn’t that important to them.

In my article How I Turned my Frustration into Action, I discussed responses that people gave when I expressed frustration that I hadn’t reached the level of financial success that some of my friends had.

• “Dude, what I wouldn’t give to be where you are! Why are you frustrated — just be happy with what you’ve done!”
• “Don’t compare yourself to other people. You have a pretty good life!”
• “You don’t want to be one of those rich assholes. Mo money, mo problems.”
• “I’d rather be happy than rich.”

I saw what was going on. What those people were doing was justifying why giving up was OK. It’s a defense mechanism. Some people feel better with these excuses.

Incels do the same thing.

Rather than analyze what is going wrong and try to solve it, they rationalize that it’s impossible, and they didn’t want it anyhow. And then they dig in.

The fact is, they do want it. They want it so bad that it breaks their heart to even think about it. But they do think about it. All the time.

Their solution: Just don’t want it. You’re not a failure if you don’t try.

As a defense mechanism, they are quick to dismiss any idea that their belief is wrong, because they would rather believe that they are “right”. They’d rather be “right” than actually have the possibility to succeed. Thus they’ve cut off any pathway to possible success.

When you add it all up, the situation is grim. Having never experienced success, they believe it is impossible for them, and they will never get to experience a romantic relationship. Living in a world where they believe that they simply aren’t equals, they resent everyone who doesn’t suffer from the same lack.

The more I talked to them, the more defensive and angry they got. It seemed that they were being purposely defiant.

After coming to the conclusion that this was hopeless, I decided I had enough. Through everything I learned, I still had no idea why they are so committed to this horrible mindset. But I’d just about come to the conclusion that there was probably nothing I could do. It was time to walk away from this.

Then late last night, I got a message in my inbox.

He reached out to me privately. He didn’t want the group to know, but wanted some guidance. I got through. To one person.

It’s a start.

I don’t have the answers. But it’s a very serious problem that we should not dismiss as the rantings of some immature and absurd children throwing a temper tantrum.

We really need to pay attention, for everyone’s sake. The consequences are too great, and it’s not hard to imagine a nightmare outcome.