The Partisan Divide is Killing Us
America’s Great Divide: Frank Luntz Interview | FRONTLINE
Frank Luntz is an American political and communications consultant, pollster and pundit. He is best known for developing talking points and other messaging for Republican causes. He was interviewed for PBS FRONTLINE for their piece entitled “America’s Great Divide.”
We don’t trust anything anymore
FRONTLINE Interviewer: You’ve got a situation now where there are two Americas. It is very divided, even to the point, like with the Mueller investigation … you have two different views of what’s in the damn report.
Frank Luntz: We don’t trust anything anymore, and I think this is really dangerous for our democracy. We don’t trust the media to tell us the truth. We don’t trust the government to — to manage the economy or to be involved in a positive and uplifting way. We don’t trust business to treat its employees with respect and decency. We don’t trust culture to play to the best parts of us rather than to appeal to the worst parts.
We have so low a level of trust, and a democracy requires at least some faith in the future and some faith in the people who lead us. No democracy can survive when wrapped in skepticism and cynicism, and that is where we are right now. And our politicians on both sides have created an environment of acrimony and partisanship and division that is not just poisonous; it is genuinely toxic. It is killing this country.
The partisan division is killing this country.
No way to recover democracy
And everyone who speaks in that language that dismisses a community or dismisses somebody else, we are not just trashing them. We are dehumanizing them; we are delegitimizing them. And when you get that far that you have no right to exist, that you have nothing to contribute to society, when we make that decision, there is no recovering; there is no coming back because you cease to exist. And that is where we are right now.
And it scares the s*** out of me because you can’t show me a time when a democracy recovered. The Weimar Republic did not recover. The brief experiment in democracy that happened in 1917 led to the biggest revolution in Russia. When you lose all legitimacy because you’ve lost all credibility, you don’t recover, and that’s where we are right now.
We have a lot to be angry about towards our politicians for taking us here.
This is not what was supposed to happen when Barack Obama got elected. This was what not was supposed to happen when we drained the swamp. We were supposed to remove all this stuff. We were supposed to clean everything up, and all we’ve done is muddy it.
And don’t tell me that, well, it’s difficult or it’s messy. It is. But people have made it more difficult and made it more messy, and they have a lot to answer for. All of us: the pollsters, the media, the politicians, the business leaders, the cultural leaders. They’ve let us down, and we have the right to be angry.
But, we don’t have the right to be poisonous.
A disease without a cure
Social media just makes a bad situation even worse. We already are a country at war with each other. Now overlay that with social media, which takes that criticism and puts it into every person’s home immediately, without reflection and without — without editing. A negative tweet is so much more likely to be shared than a positive tweet. A hostile Facebook posting is more likely to be liked than something that’s positive. And we now have direct democracy so that anyone can criticize anyone at anytime, and they do.
I challenge people who say, “Oh, this is just a stage that we’re going through.” I’ve seen so many great nations and cultures rise and fall: the Brits, the French, the Dutch, the Portuguese, the Egyptians, the Italians, the Greeks. Again and again, societies rise, and societies fall.
There is nothing permanent.
And there’s always something that’s been introduced into that system that undermines and eventually destroys that system, something that comes from the outside. If you study history, it’s like it’s a disease that comes in, and there’s no cure for it.
The disease is social media.
Because, it actually rewards not just negativity, but there’s no differentiation between fact and fiction. There’s no differentiation between those who know what they’re saying and those who are just making it up. And because it is instantaneous, you can’t fix it when you’re wrong.
We now live by the latest tweet.
Social media is the system by which the poison is delivered
The president shows that. More people get their information from Donald Trump’s tweets than The New York Times, Washington Post, L.A. Times and Wall Street Journal combined. We have a responsibility to understand that kids are reading it, not just adults; that there are first-generation immigrants are reading it, not just those who have been here for 300 years.
But we don’t (acknowledge who the audience is). And there’s no control over it. We have no self-censorship anymore. The politicians create the poison, but social media is the system by which it (the poison) is delivered. And make no mistake, (the poison) is in all of us now. And it’s destroying, it’s wrecking us; it really is.
The poison is in all of us now and it’s destroying us
America would have listened to Obama
FRONTLINE Interviewer: Critics are tying Donald Trump’s rhetoric specifically into the mass-murder rampages, and the rise of white supremacists. Critics blame him for using (inflammatory rhetoric) all for political reasons. What’s your take?
Frank Luntz: Every time I heard that a young black male had been shot and killed, I cringed, fearing that it was a white cop, because I knew what would happen: the recrimination, the protests, the division. The greater the division between black and white.
But this was under Barack Obama (also). White cops … had killed black youth under a black president. Nobody blamed him for being unable to bring the country together. Nobody blamed him for being unable to find a solution. He was given a pass. I think that is one of the greatest tragedies. President Obama had a special voice in that situation.
People would have listened but Obama chose not to be that voice.
Trump has a very loud voice today, much louder than Obama’s … There’s something that’s wrong in this country. And I do wish that the president’s day-to-day language would be much closer to his State of the Union language. (I wish it were) much higher, much loftier, much more inspirational.
He says what tens of millions of people believe, and he reflects them. I think he’s more of a reflection than he is a creator. I think he reflects their point of view more than he changes it or impacts it, because they were there long before him, and they’re going to be there long after he is. But hopefully at some point there will be someone who can speak the American voice.
The American Voice
This is what I’m working for. That there (would be) a voice in this country that can speak to you regardless of what ethnicity you are, what gender you are, what age you are. Unfortunately, identity politics is becoming more prevalent as we divide even further. But, I think there is an American voice that can speak to all of this, and it’s not in politics, and I don’t know if it exists today, but that voice needs to speak.
It does exist. It does exist. We do have a solution. It’s Oprah. Because Oprah Winfrey talks to everybody. Oprah Winfrey is heard by everybody. She cries with you; she laughs with you; she cajoles you. Everything about her is America. The physical challenges she has, the emotion, the inspiration, the disappointment. She is the only person left who could unify this division.
We are so angry with each other
FRONTLINE Interviewer: Why doesn’t (Trump understand) that when he goes after four minority women (Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar) in the Congress that has ramifications? (Doesn’t he understand that this is) seen by some people in a very different way than (he does?) Doesn’t this broaden the divide?
Frank Luntz: Donald Trump’s blessing is also his curse. He is such a strong personality that he can withstand criticism, and he believes passionately in certain aspects of what this country is about. The problem with that is that he doesn’t understand his critics. He doesn’t empathize with them; he doesn’t — and he doesn’t seek to.
What makes sense to him, and to tens of millions (of Americans) when he’s critical of those four Democratic congresswomen (may not make sense to others). It made perfect sense to him (when he said it), but he doesn’t realize how their (the Congresswomen’s) supporters, will hear it.
I don’t think Donald Trump knows that some of what he says really deeply emotionally, passionately bothers people. And maybe the difference (between the President and I are that), I care, and so I’ll change my behavior. He’s very strong-willed, and I’m not convinced that he cares to change. But it does have an impact. And it’s part of why we are so angry with each other.
I don’t think Donald Trump knows that what he says bothers people … and it’s part of why we are so angry with each other.
Thousands of Americans feel unforgiving and bitter
FRONTLINE Interviewer: Where are we now? Where are we going?
Frank Luntz: I know where we are, and I know where we’re headed, and you really don’t want me to answer that question. If I answer that question (honestly), everybody watching will turn off their TV and just go grab a bottle of something incredibly strong and drown their sorrows. I don’t know if this is recoverable.
I don’t know if this is recoverable.
And remember, the people you (are interviewing for your piece) have much more important jobs than I do, have been in places I’ve never been. But what they haven’t heard are the voices of so many thousands of Americans. Americans who have told me just how unforgiving they are, how bitter they are towards the other side.
Everybody wants to speak; nobody wants to listen. Everyone wants to be heard; nobody wants to learn. And these aren’t just cute sound bites; it’s real.
There are two senators who I (spoke to concerning this) when I was arguably depressed. I wanted them to see what I saw and hear what I heard. (These two senators were both women) one Democrat, one Republican.
Both of them left after half an hour; they couldn’t take it anymore. Women who had never met each other, women who are supposed get along (easier than men do). They (are supposed to be the ones who) compromise; women can save the world; men want to fight; women want to work together.
Bulls***. These women were more vicious to each other, and they knew nothing of their backgrounds; they’d never met each other before. And the ugliness was impossible.
Everybody wants to speak; nobody wants to listen.
We are teaching our children how to bully
I know what the future is. If we do not change this course right now, our children will grow up in an environment where there is no compromise, where there is no cooperation. Our children are being taught to be judgmental at a time when we should be more open than we’ve ever been. They’re taught that their opponents are stupid or destructive or even worse.
Our kids are taught to bully. Our kids are taught to ignore. It’s not just how adults treat each other; our children are watching.
Our kids are watching.
There was a wonderful Clinton ad that had some of Trump’s most angry language, and they said, “Your kids are watching.” The problem is, it neglected how ugly their language had been. The idea of calling a Trump supporter “deplorable?” That’s not happened before.
Don’t insult your opponent’s supporters and just negate them and wash them aside. That’s where we are right now, and that’s where we’re headed, and it’s going to really suck. And I don’t want to live in a world like that.
Its our fault, all of us
FRONTLINE Interviewer: What was the cause of all this?
Frank Luntz: All of us! Do you not see that? In the questions that we are asked; in the answers that we give; in the language that I create; in the language, either in the words that Donald Trump uses or the words that Barack Obama should have used but didn’t. One of them probably says too much; one of them probably didn’t say enough.
There was a common ground in this country on Jan. 20, 2009. And it wasn’t quite what Barack Obama said it was. It (also) wasn’t what the Republicans had said it was (after Trump won in 2016). It was somewhere in the middle. There was a common ground, and there’s no common ground anymore. There’s no center.
What it really means to be a great country
(with tears) I went into politics because someone had said to me (choked up) … someone had said to me when I was 17 years old that I was a great American.
It was Jim Buckley (Senator from New York 1971 - 1977). And that made me so proud, because I loved this country and all that it stood for. F*** (choked up)!
And when people say that (they love this country) now, I don’t think we’re great now. This idea of “Make America Great Again,” we’re not great because of our economy. We were great because we had nice people who didn’t hate, who would help those (people who needed it).
you came here because of the Statue of Li (chokes up and cannot finish sentence).
My family members who did not come to America because they weren’t allowed to in 1941 were killed in the Ukraine in that execution. And I went there, and this is what happened, because I realized what … God, f ***! (cannot finish thought … too emotional).
Politics isn’t a game
Politics isn’t a game. And it’s not just for who’s alive today; it’s for what we will be 50 or 100 years from now. And I don’t think we think of the consequences. I don’t think we consider them when we think about what we say and how we say it. We are so drawn into separate camps, that our camp can say anything and their camp is always evil. That’s wrong.
To think the other camp is always evil. That’s wrong.
We need referees of decency and a willingness to call foul on our own side. Because in the end it isn’t our side; it’s everyone’s side.
We were far more divided in the Civil War, far more divided during the Great Depression. But we’ve always had hope in the future, and that hope, we’re losing it with this division. And as someone who has to listen to this every single day, I feel the poison.
We’re loosing hope. I feel the poison, it’s in me.
If you listen to what people say, you really take it in, I don’t know how you could sleep at night. It really is that bad.
FRONTLINE Interviewer: (What do you think about) the coming election? Where do we go from here?
Frank Luntz: I’m expecting this to be the most negative election that America has experienced since 1800. I’m expecting every ad to be negative with the exception maybe of the very first Trump ad when he talks about the economy. I’m expecting the debates to be a free-for-all. I’m expecting the rallies to become increasingly loud and potentially violent. I’m afraid that there will be violence in 2020 and that there will be little or no substance, and everything will be accusations and ad hominem attacks.
If you hated politics now, I suggest you move to New Zealand.
