Seeds In Concrete Part II
Welcome to the second installment of Seeds In Concrete!
This series was created by actor Joe Nieves (How I Met Your Mother, Disney’s Stuck in the Middle, The Mentalist, etc.) and myself to discuss how creativity, and pursuing nonconformist dreams and careers, can play out over decades and how it has helped shaped us, our ideals, and now, our families. Thank you for checking it out.
If you missed the first volume, here it is:
For the second installment, Joe and I reflect upon how being creative, and more importantly, pursuing a life in that world, really begins from our earliest interactions with our parents, friends, and society as a whole. What makes creative people different from those who either aren’t creative, or might be, but chose not to pursue it beyond a hobby?
Seeing as we’re two guys in our late 40’s, from the same schools and neighborhood in Brooklyn, New York, (as well as being life-long friends) our perspectives are pretty close on most subjects. We dove into some of them for this piece and we will continue to do so with each other, and special guests along the way. Most of what we discussed here hovered around the current turmoil in the world, (COVID-19 and the protests surrounding the killing of an African American man, George Floyd at the hands of a white (ex)police officer) and what it all means for us, our kids, and the future of the United States as well as the world at large.
These conversations are heavy but they’re needed. It’s time to open our collective eyes to a world that’s not operating the way it should. There’s too much hate, injustice, and corruption pouring out of too many holes in society. If people continue to ignore this, we all drown.
Before we get into the heavier stuff though, how did Joe and I, or anyone else in a creative or somewhat “abnormal” field, veer off into a world in which the bulk of the people around us did not? Was it in our DNA? Did we know something others didn’t? Were we raised differently? So many things can be true at once, but the answers are so much deeper and nuanced than simply answering yes or no to any of those (and many other ) questions.
I think exposure to certain things outside of our own environment plays a huge role. Throughout grammar school, our friends were all interested in playing and following sports. Aside from playing little league baseball, CYO basketball, and both tackle and touch football, we all played a statistics game called Strat-o-Matic. The game used real player stats from the player’s previous season, along with odds and probability, to create new stats that were printed onto cards. We’d draft our teams and play full, 162 game seasons (for baseball anyway), sometimes multiple seasons, each year. Joe’s house was one of the main two or three homes we would gather at to play.
I mention this because it was a huge part of our childhood with friends we still have 35 years later. Times were simpler back then and we all seemed to be exactly alike in those days, but no one truly is. In our group setting, we thought we were, but we all went home to our own families, our personal ecosystems. We don’t know which views were taught, which words were used and which worldviews were learned. These friends I’m talking about are all parents now and we can all see things through that lens, something we obviously couldn’t as kids.
Using that parent lens matters, and I think it makes all the difference in the world. We should be looking to make the world a better and more tolerable place for our kids and not continue some of the hurtful and incorrect things we may have been taught as kids ourselves. Yes, this does imply that some of what we learned from our parents and teachers may have been wrong but that’s OK. Who among us knows anyone, including ourselves, who’s been right about things 100% of the time? No one.
During our recent conversation for this piece, Joe and I reminisced about something we think not only helped us see the world differently perhaps but can help explain how being exposed to things outside of our comfort zone, especially at a young age, can shape who you eventually become. I’m not suggesting this is the be-all, end-all, but it is something that needs to be recognized as a potential factor.
On October 13th, 1987, I was already 14-years-old, Joe was about to turn 14 the following month, and his older brother Peter was 16 or 17. The reason I’m highlighting our ages is because of where we all were on this particular night. Unsupervised by an adult, we attended the stand-up comedy special Raw by Eddie Murphy at Madison Square Garden in New York City. We were fans of Murphy already, as well as other comedians such as Richard Pryor and George Carlin. We asked our respective parents if we could get tickets and go. If memory serves us correctly, Joe and Pete’s dad drove us to MSG, and off we went. In talking the other day, Joe and I thought about how wild that was. Sure, things were different in 1987 than they are today but think about the implications of our young minds being exposed to words, stories, and philosophies of someone like Eddie Murphy. His material was meant for adults and it was designed to challenge the status quo in almost every way. It made a lasting impression on us. I, for one, am thankful it did.
Music was also a huge influence on us as kids. Our immediate group of friends, although not haters of music in any way, didn’t feel music the same way we did. We were all fans of pop, classic rock, hard rock, and heavy metal in varying degrees. Between the years 1985 through 1987 though, Joe and I began to explore rap music, which was brand new at that time. We started listening to artists such as Run-DMC, KRS-One, Beastie Boys, LL Cool J, and Public Enemy. This had an amazingly important impact on us and would, just like edgy and controversial stand-up comedy, make an impression on us that not only lasts through today, it grows all the time.
Experiences like these matter. Exposure to other cultures and societies matter. Realizing that “our way” isn’t the only way, matters. The world is a very big place, filled with people who do things, see things, and like things, different from the way we do. It goes both ways as what we were taught, and what we learned, were different than that of other people. It’s not hard to see, and yet for far too many, it’s hard to accept. It’s hard to admit that people different than ourselves have just as much a right to live how they want as we do. No pecking order should exist although we all know that’s not reality.
Learning about and accepting diversity at a young age, although we certainly made mistakes and still need to learn and understand more each day, allowed both Joe and I to take those lessons and apply them to what we do now. When Joe is up for a role in a film or TV show, depending on the character he’s playing, he can pull from experiences he’d allowed himself to have learned and embraced due to his worldview. Being not just curious, but a fan of art created by anyone, regardless of background or even message, allows Joe to see things from a wide array of perspectives. His understanding of different people, culture, as well as history, provides him with an assortment of tools to use when playing and creating a role.
The same goes for me when I’m working with musicians on their album releases. I’ve been a fan of many different genres of music throughout my life. I’m still finding new ones today, as I’m more open to sounds and messages coming from different perspectives and cultures than perhaps I wouldn’t have been had I not embraced differences so long ago. Listening to Public Enemy at Joe’s house in 1987 while playing Strat-o-Matic baseball allowed me to see how political rap and English punk rock were born out of rebellion against oppression. That helps me now as musicians are much more apt to mix styles and sounds than they were 30 years ago, but I can recognize and help with the message they’re trying to send.
As we try and navigate a world in which a global pandemic rules the day, although no one seems to agree on what to really do about yet; along with social unrest regarding racial equality which has essentially produced the unofficial second Civil Rights movement in America, it’s up to all of us to seek and practice more tolerance than ever before. It’s sad to have to say that in 2020 because we should have been doing this forever, but sadly we weren’t.
People from all walks of life, with different beliefs and worldviews, can and should come together to discuss this. It’s not easy, emotions carry the day and feelings will get hurt. I’m guilty of this and I’d say Joe would admit as much as well. It’s our responsibility as parents and as people putting ideas out into the world, to forge ahead and figure out the best way forward for a better, more equitable world. Differences are fine, choosing wrong over right however is not.
Joe and I, along with many others, creating or distributing art and creativity of any kind, have an important job to do. All people, regardless of their occupation do, but I put extra weight on those (including myself) who put thoughts and ideas out into the world for consumption because it’s visible on a bigger scale. In some cases it has influence we’re not even aware of. I think difficult and humbling conversations need to be taking place everywhere, and if music, film, comedy, painting, writing, etc. can do that, then we have to produce it and make sure our kids and entire generations of children today, get to grow up in as peaceful, and as just a world, as possible.
Thank you for reading Part II of Seeds In Concrete and please follow us (Joe here and me here) on Twitter to further the conversation and stay updated on future installments.