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here that was showing the full documentary, but it’s, if you can find it as well worth seeking out.Gavin: [00:11:14] Uh, freedom’s fury, it’s called. And if you do find it, please let us know so that we can let everyone else know where, where they can find it. If it’s, if it’s buried in YouTube summer, that would be really great. But, uh, just, you know, throwing in water polo is just fantastic cause it’s, you know, it’s such an out there sport.Let’s move to number six, Iverson 2014 it’s on Netflix. Um, I mean, I pretty sure I know why you’re going to say you like this, but what’s the sport and why do you like it?Murray: [00:11:38] So I think it’s actually a type, I think it’s actually on Amazon prime here in the UK. I’m not sure what it’s on in the States, but you know, it’s interesting with the hype that’s going on around the last dance and Michael Jordan at the moment, you know, Al Iverson was always somebody that really interested me.I worked at the NBA. Brought it towards the end of Jordan’s career, and it always interested me, this kind of idea of, of Iverson being the antihero. You know, Jordan was the one that, you know, uh, uh, in England we call it like the Housewives favorite. You know, it’s the one that you could bring home to your mother.He’s the one that you could just sit and chat with your dad. But all of a sudden it’s the one that you’d want to be, you know, smoking a joint without in the garden or something like that. You know, he’s the, he’s the one that you really wanted to hang out with. And he was just electric. And he talks very candidly at lucidly about some of the issues that he went through in his life, including.You know, a number of people that effectively saved him from, you know, a life of crime. But it also, you know, as a, as a, as an English white guy, it kind of shines an interesting light for me on the urban culture and what it’s, you know, at least what his perception of what it’s like to grow up. Black in and a, and a relatively poor neighborhood.And you know how there was a certain amount of racism that still existed when he was growing up. So, I mean, there’s lots of aspects of this that, you know, he, he, he is much more of a, uh, an influence on the culture of NBA than Jordan ethanol was. He’s, I think, much more of a, of an influence in terms of, you know, if you were a real efficient auto, I think you probably want it to be over.So you thought Jordan was a superstar and probably the best that’s ever played. But you kind of want it to be Iverson cause he was the cool one. And so I think there’s kind of lots of interests, lots of interesting different narratives going through this whole film and, and, and different strands that they pick up on about him, which, which I found fascinatingGavin: [00:13:30] here in the U S it is available on YouTube and Amazon and a few other places you can rent it.So it is a rental. Um, and yeah, I mean, I agree. I don’t know enough about Iverson. I would really like to know more. So it’s great that you put this on the list. Number seven is salute. 2008 it’s available on Amazon prime. Why do you like this one?Murray: [00:13:49] So this is, uh, regarding the, uh, uh, Peter norm and the Australian that finished second or the 200 meters at the Olympics in 68 in Mexico.And, uh, obviously famous for the Tommy Smith, John Carlos glove fist, uh, black power salute. And, you know, it’s something that every time I see that iconic photo, I always wondered, like, I wonder. What’s the story behind the white guy on the podium? And I came across this a while ago, and it’s just fascinating, you know?Well, you know, you’re right. This is how politics connect with sport. And it was interesting, um, you know, fall from being an innocent bystander. He was actually quite heavily involved. And this is quite an absorbing. Documentary. Yeah. Yeah. Looking at it from his perspective and interviews, all three of them, and they are, they remained friends to this day.And ultimately, I guess, you know, that’s another amazing thing about, that’s what the Olympic movement is all about. It’s about, they can, you know, different races coming from different sides of the world. And yet they all believe in this Olympic ideal of equality and freedom for all. And so, you know, it’s just a quite a kind of a.An interesting political story and an interesting story about friendship.Gavin: [00:14:59] Number eight is sons of Cuba. 2009 this is boxing, right? And I have heard about this. I hear it’s a very, very good documentary. It’s, it’s available on Amazon prime, so if you have Amazon, you can get it for free. I am watching a lot on Amazon right now.Um, they have, they’re, they’re doing a very good job of putting a lot of great things up there. But tell us, you know, w w what this is about and why you like it.Murray: [00:15:21] Yeah, I mean, for those people that have seen hoop dreams, this is quite similar in terms of, uh, it follows three young, uh, Cuban, uh, kids, uh, at a boxing Academy and Havana, uh, as they train towards the, uh, under twelves national boxing championship.And. You know, in Cuba, boxing is a way of, they’ve had a phenomenal, um, Olympic and, uh, amateur boxing, uh, record. They’ve won 73 medals at the Olympics. 37 of those were gold. Um, so just probably the number one nation for boxing in the world. And boxing is a way in which, you know, poor Cubans can, can, uh, make some, uh, make a little bit of money and, and, and gain some stature for their, for their families.But the interesting thing about this is. This was all filmed during the period when Castro took a step back from, from leading Cuba, and actually three of their boxes defected to the U S through their gold medalist effected to the U S so it’s got another interesting political connotation to it, but it’s just a, you know, an incredibly well tell, told story.That gets under the skin of something that you don’t normally get to see. And what more can you ask from a full, from a documentary than to give you a window on something that you, that you never normally sayGavin: [00:16:38] as we wind down the last two here, I just great to hear you speak. You speak with such passion, you just love these films and it really makes me want to go and watch all of them.And I’ve only seen, it looks like one here. So this is, this is. My wife is not going to be happy when I’m going to be spending all this time. Why don’t you sports style? You guys are all ashamed. You’re just watching sports documentaries. But I think that you, you really, so let’s get you really make some great points here.So number nine, uh, TT closer to the edge. 2011. It’s a rental on Amazon prime. Tell me the sport and why you like this one.Murray: [00:17:09] So if you’re going to watch one on this list, this will be the one I’d probably put number one. Um, this is probably in my all time, top five documentaries ever. Uh, it’s about a race that takes place in the United, in the United Kingdom.It’s called the isle of man TT, which is one, if not the most. Dangerous motorcycle race in the world. It takes place on public roads very little in the way of barriers and, um, uh, and, and safety mechanisms. Uh, but it’s peppered with, uh, amazing characters and really just a fascinating insight into it. In into what drives these people, but also incredibly moving.Because as you can imagine, every year there are some very serious accidents and the families of those riders have to have to deal with life changing consequences. And yet they come back and, and they celebrate this sport, which means so much to them. And so I just found it very, very fascinating. On a. On a, on a human level.And it’s got probably my all time favorite, favorite quote from any, uh, documentary I’ve ever seen. And it’s very simple. It’s a, and I’m paraphrasing it ever so slightly, but it’s, uh, uh, you can’t change the hand, the hand that you’re Delta in life, but you can choose how to play the cards. And I always thought that was such a lovely sentiment.Gavin: [00:18:34] Oh, wow. That’s great. That is amazing. All right. Number 10, um, Barkley marathons, the race that eats its young 2014 it’s on Amazon prime is a rental. WhatMurray: [00:18:48] this is, this is, this is just, this is just absolutely bonkers. It’s, uh, so it’s, uh, two races in one. There’s a fun run, which is 60 miles long.Gavin: [00:18:58] Wait, wait a minute.60 miles, fun run. That doesn’t sound like aMurray: [00:19:01] fun run. Well, they call it the farm run cause the real race is a hundred miles long and you can own and you have to complete the course within 60 hours. And actually it’s not really a race in the sense that so few people have actually completed the race. It’s just about.Trying to complete it, if you can win bright, but really, you know, you’re already an exalted, uh, uh, if you can actually just even complete it and it’s, again, um, there’s a lot of, uh, fascinating characters involved in the race. You can only take part virus, a very secret, uh, application process. Only 35 people are out to do it a year.It’s run by some very kind of eccentric characters. And actually, um, uh, how they know that you’ve run the courses that they take, uh, a book and they basically tear pages from this book and they put a certain number of pages. It is, uh, various different checkpoints. And they know that you’ve actually stopped at those checkpoints because you take one sheet of the, of the book from that particular checkpoint, and then you’re able to prove that you actually pass the checkpoint.But again, you know, fascinating because the reason why. The people do this race is all, is all different. Why that competing is all different and just, you know, um, there’s some kind of, what’s the word? Uh, Shodan Freud or him being able to sit on your couch with a bag of potato, potato chips and watch somebody else running a hundred miles in 60Gavin: [00:20:26] hours.I love that you’re converting everything for the American audience. You went, you said soccer off the top when we know it’s football and you’re just a bag of chips. A bag of CR instead of saying crisps for potato chips. I love it. Thank you so much for helping my audience understand the British language.Okay, so th th this has been an amazing, like, it’s really, really great to be, I’m being very American now using the word amazing, like crazy, which I know the Brits absolutely hate, but at the end of the day, it’s, it’s, it’s really interesting. You know, you’ve pulled the pluck these little gems and there’s so many documentaries out there and to, uh, I w when you, you sent me.This. I was just like, this is, this is great. I’ve never heard of them. And even if I watch one or two, just having the Pat hearing the passion behind your voice and understanding that this is something that really, you know, resonated with you, it makes me want to watch the more. Now, for everyone who’s listening, you can sign off now if you want, but there is a bonus.Um, Marie has sent me 12 of the best ever ESPN documentaries. And we’re going to go through them quickly. Not, not, we’re not going to spend as much time as we did on the first 10 of the, of your, of the documentaries. Um, but I’m gonna read them out and then what I’d like to do is that, well, you know, why don’t we do it this way, Marie, we’ll, um, we’ll, I’ll read out and if you can just give me a sentence as to why it’s the big ESPN.Why this, these are ESPN documentaries that you really like. Are they in any particular order? Cause you’ve got 12 here.Murray: [00:21:55] Well. So just to, just to start off with, you know, I spent 11 years working at ESPN, and so these came out when I was at ESPN, or the first series came out while I was there. And it’s just a, uh, an incredibly passionate group of people, uh, making, um, uh, movies or documentaries about.Subjects, which they were very passionate about. So in most of these documentaries, that all comes across because the way that this started was not that there was a predetermined list of this, this is what the subject matter is going to be. They were just told, Hey, look. Write down the stories and sport that you want to beat, you want to have told, and we will figure out how we’re going to get the rights to do it.How are we going to get you the right team to make it? And so they got amazing directors and amazing filmmakers together to do these passion jokes. And so it really comes across when you watch these. Just how much, um, how much care and attention to detail these filmmakers have gone into making these, um, I haven’t put them in any particular order, but there are three or four.Or in which I can point out as we go along, which are my absolute absolute fivesGavin: [00:23:00] now, how do you see them? Do you have to have ESPN to see, like how do you see them over in the UK or can you, do you like how would people go and see these ESPN documentaries?Murray: [00:23:09] So there is an ESPN app that’s available here in the UK.ESPN plus, which I think has most of these documentaries on them. And I think, you know, in the States probably, I haven’t actually had to look. A bunch of these you can probably find on YouTube and you know, just a little bit of random searching. I’m sure that most of these you can find, uh, somewhere on one of your services.Gavin: [00:23:32] Nice. And what I’ll do as a, anyone that’s listening is that we’ll also put this into the description. I’ll put the top 10, um. Uh, documentaries, and also put the best ever ESPN documentary so you can find them there. Okay. Here we go. And many of them are self explanatory, so I just might move on quite quickly.But the Kings, the number one is King’s grandson NHLs Wayne Gretzky’s controversial move to the LA Kings. And me being a Canadian, I remember this day. Um, and this, I’ve, I’ve. I’ve actually, I think I’ve may have seen this documentary of many years ago, but it was, it was really good. Um, the next one is number two, no crossover at the trial of Allen Iverson.So there seems to be a bit of a theme here around Iverson, which is interesting. Well, actually,Murray: [00:24:11] with a number of these documentaries, they ended up triggering some of the other documentaries that were on the list. So actually the trial of Allen Iverson, that was something which then led to the Allen

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Iverson film.So probably not, don’t need to dwell on that other than set covers a lot of the same subject matter, but a little bit of a narrower approach in terms of a specific incident and Allen IVUS life that was kind of shaped who he became.Gavin: [00:24:36] And the nine, seven, nine. Um, I’m going to take a guest to, this was Ben Johnson, the 1980 800 meter Olympic final, um, because oneMurray: [00:24:44] of my.Sorry on this. Probably one of my three favorite ones. Four favorite ones on this list in the sense that, you know, since that final, I think all but two or maybe all but three of the people that took part have been, uh, have had some kind of doping offense. So. No, it really puts it into context. And not only that, you know, it’s easy to see Ben Johnson as the, uh, as the bad guy in all of this.But I, I, I feel that he was just incredibly manipulated and this goes into a lot of explanation and, you know, definitely wrong that he did. The eat that he took trucks of course, but I think there’s a lot more to the story than, than meets the eye. And a lot of it is told in us in this film.Gavin: [00:25:28] Number four is the 16th man, 1995 rugby world cup.Now you were, you worked for a world rugby, right? You, you, you there. So is that why this is on the list or, and you are, I can’t see, can’t see. Marie Marie is like the size of a rugby player. It’s like.Murray: [00:25:47] To fight like a rugby player, I think is what you mean. Um, so like this is, most people have probably seen the, uh, the Matt Damon film, uh, Invictus, and this is the real life account of that movie and what it means, what it meant, uh, for the unification of Africa and of South Africa, and the role that Nelson Mandela played in that.And it’s. Just, it’s, it’s even more powerful because it’s true than watching a movie about it. So you know, to see the actual people talking about it, it’s just a phenomenalGavin: [00:26:21] number five is June 17th, 1994 Oh, JayMurray: [00:26:26] doesn’t need any say anything more. It’s the slow car chase that we’ve all seen, but it was just wondering what you were going to say.But it, but it shows it in the context of all everything that was happening that day in sports and where that was leading up to. And so just again, a Seminole moment and in sports and you know, such a fascinating story.Gavin: [00:26:48] Nice. Number six is the two Escobars, the 1994 FIFA world cup and the tragedy of Andres Escobar.Tell me about that.Murray: [00:26:56] Yeah. So he played, he was a defender for the Colombian national team, and he missed the penalty and, uh, was subsequently shot in, um, uh, when he returned to Columbia and, uh, and was killed. And this film. Talk some, some about that, but also about the role of his, uh, unrelated namesake, Pablo Escobar, in even getting the Colombian national team to the 1994, uh, world cup.So, you know, just a, again, a very fascinating story and yeah. Probably one of the most famous of the ESPN documentaries or the most lauded of the SPN documentaries.Gavin: [00:27:35] As we moved to number seven, we moved back to the United States and Michael Jordan, Michael, it’s just called Jordan rides the bus. Michael Jordan plays minor league baseball.There was a lot of controversy around why he left a basketball, and I have not seen the new documentary, uh, but my understanding is they don’t talk about the fact that. That he was gambling on games and that was, he was, he was given a nice little exit. Um, it’s sports law. No one’s really confirmed it, but, um, it seems that was the reason why he went down to the minor league and what I did, what I’ve always sort of understood, um, that if you do not learn in either cricket or baseball.To see the seams of a ball being thrown at 80 or 90 miles an hour before you are 10 years old. You are, your brain is not able to do it. And this may be the reason why Michael Jordan had so many problems in the minor league is that he couldn’t see the ball. He couldn’t see the seam, and that it seems to be a really important part of it.Why do you like this documentary?Murray: [00:28:29] Well, just, yeah, fascinating to see somebody, it was the master of his sport. Trying, you know, trying to make it in a completely different sport. And, you know, some of it is hubris and some of it is a bloody mindedness. And, uh, yeah, just an interesting story that has also been dealt with a little bit in the end up in the last answer.Gavin: [00:28:49] Number eight is unmatched Everett and advertised over tennis.Murray: [00:28:53] Yeah. So this one was an interesting one. It’s a great conversation between the two of them. They’re, you know, they’re there, they were rivals, but also huge friends and just, you know, you could listen to them for hours talking about their relationship and what it was like to be at the top of their game.And just a very, you know, positive, nice story, if you like her. Yeah. A pleasant way to pause an hour.Gavin: [00:29:16] Number nine is once brothers, NBA players torn apart by politics, Croatian Darson, Petrovich and Serbian VOD. Sorry, Petra Vick, is it? Yeah. And SerbianMurray: [00:29:27] doesn’t dress. Dress on Petrovich and bloody diva.Gavin: [00:29:31] Okay.And, but there are Serbian and Croatian, um, and clearly I can’t say their names, so that’s great. Um, so I apologize to them, but I mean, this was in the nineties. This was a big deal. I’m being, being Canadian. We had a lot of, uh, people from Czechoslovakia come over, uh, the Croatians and the Serbs. And, um, even in Canada there was division, but I remember playing, you know, uh, soccer and with, with, you know, kids who had come from that war.So, um, why do you like this one?Murray: [00:30:00] So it’s the theme of, you know, uh, politics and sports again, and, you know, they were, um. They were teammates on the Yugoslav national team. And then asGavin: [00:30:12] nationally, I met Yugoslavia. I’m so sorry.Murray: [00:30:15] Yeah, the on the, um, and they were, when they had the civil war, they were kind of put on opposite sides.And you know, used, used by their respect of governments for. Very political reasons, and you can see how much it hurts, especially, you know, draws on. Petrovich passed away. So, you know, it was, um, it’s, it’s just a great, great, great story about, you know, friendships torn apart by politics.Gavin: [00:30:43] And down to our last three, 10, 11, 12.Number 10 is no mass, uh, sugar Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran in the 1980s. Um, and, and I have heard about this as a very good documentary. Uh, number 11, when the garden was Eden, 1970s, New York Knicks, again, a little bit more basketball. So ESPN obviously has a queen, uh, quite a good basketball, um, uh, bent.And then number 12. White, blue and white, Ricky Villa and, uh, Aussie are well taught. Well, this is your team. No wonder, I’m just reading this out. It’s like Tottenham Hotspurs during the Falkland islands crisis. So tell us a bit about those three. No mass. When the garden, when the garden was eaten and, and white, blue and white.Murray: [00:31:24] So, Namaste. That’s a great landed. And Roberto Duran pound for pound, the greatest boxers that ever, that have ever boxed and just had some Titanic battles. And you know, you, you go online and you find any clip of them, uh, boxing against each other and it was just spectacular action. No matter how you feel about boxing, it was just a spectacular action.So, um, you know. That’s just a great, great piece of visceral entertainment.Gavin: [00:31:53] Cause you said you had three, you had three that you liked is no mass. One of the ones, I mean you, you talked about, you know, there, you said there were three that you really liked out of the ESPN documentaries.Murray: [00:32:04] Yeah. I mean, they’re all really good.So there’s even a bunch of Shaun on here, but probably my three favorites. Uh, on nine, seven, nine, uh, the ADA Olympic a hundred meters final once brothers, and probably the 16th man, although white, blue and white, uh, about my team. Tottenham Hotspur is fantastic. It was actually not a full length documentary.It’s more a documentary short, so that probably. Yeah. If I was picked for that would be that the fourth one, um, when the garden was Eden was just about the great Knicks of the seventies. And again, just a great slice of life. Um, and back when, you know, some people can remember when the next, actually we’re a decent basketball team.Um, others will be too young to remember that. Um, but, but just to, just to dwell on white, blue, and white, for those people that don’t know, it’s. Uh, Tottenham Hotspur is, is like, uh, the nearly man of London soccer team or football teams in the sense that it was quite good for a while in the mid sixties. Um, but since the eclipse by arsenal and Chelsea as well as, you know, the teams outside of London, but in the, uh, in the late, uh, the early eighties, rather, it had got a COO of hiring.To, or signing to, uh, amazing Argentinian players and Ricky via and Ozzy, our dealers, unfortunately, a couple of years after they arrived, which heralded the arrival of a lot of, or started the trend for a lot of foreigners to come and join the premier league or the English first division as it was at the time.Um, England went to war, great Britain went to war with, uh, with Argentina and it talks very movingly and. With RBS and via about what it was like to be Argentinian and living in England, especially when they were incredibly loved by Tottenham Hotspur fans and sports fans in general in England. And, um, it ends with them actually going to the Falkland islands because, and I need to get this right.I think it’s a. Well is the art dealer cousin actually was a conscript who fought on the Falkland islands and died. And so it’s very moving that they, they, they go to the Falkland islands to actually, uh, see his, uh, his, his grave. And, um, you know, at the time, the military you went to, weren’t really telling Argentinians what was actually happening.So they were kind of caught in this kind of catch 22 situation and actually went to a Paris Parasoma. Uh, the, the French, uh, the Parisian French soccer team, uh, during that period to try and, uh, uh, diffuse the politics of the situation. And again, another example of how politics and sports are so intertwined.And, you know, I’m fascinated by that juxtaposition between politics and sports.Gavin: [00:34:51] And it’s a great way to end this off because, uh, thank you so much for putting this together. And, and it’s fascinating. I mean, having someone so deep into sport as your whole career has been. But let’s end off just quickly with this, you know, we’re in the middle of coven.Um, and you’ve written a couple of other blog posts about politics and sport. Um, just give us an update. It’s now May 20th. Uh, you know, we touched, we talked in March and sport is starting to come back with the Bundesliga in the, in, in football, in Europe. Um, we’re starting to see NASCAR come back here in America.Uh, no fans allowed yet, but you do talk quite a bit about sports and politics, um, and, and how important sport is and, and how covert has made us realize how important sport is. Um, do you want to just give us a little wrap up of that and where you think we are right now and where we’re going.Yeah.Murray: [00:35:42] When we’re moving in the right direction, I think the most important thing is that nobody loses sight of the fact that. You know, surely our health is the number one most important thing. And I suppose we’ll always be there. And if it’s delayed another couple of months, then so be it. But we also know that sports has big business these days and so many leagues and sports, whether, you know, everything from formula one through to through to football and rugby and, uh, and other motor sports, uh, if they don’t.If, if they, if they don’t go back and start competing, they won’t get paid to drop the TV broadcasters to pay the rights owners. The sponsors will, uh, will put their dollars elsewhere. So in order to keep this to be the massive business that it is, and you know, the sponsorship business and sport alone, which is worth over six.$40 billion. That was prior to this crisis. It’s projected to drop by as much as 35% during this period. Um, so it’s massive business and that’s why there’s such pressure to go, uh, you know, to go back and to start the legs again. It’s also a massive feelgood factor. You know, they talk about it very openly here in the UK about how, you know.The government wants the premier league to go back and start playing because it gives people a feeling of normality and that the things are getting better and things are improving. And certainly on this side of the pond, you know, the one thing that everybody’s really missed has been any sort of live content.It was amazing to see last week how excited people were that the Korean soccer league was coming back. And you know, for the first time ever people were watching the Korean soccer league just because it was finally some live. Soccer to watch, andGavin: [00:37:24] we’re their fans. They’reMurray: [00:37:26] a show how important it is to people.Yes.Gavin: [00:37:29] Oh, wow. Okay. Um, soMurray: [00:37:31] actually I’m not sure, I’m not sure. I might, I might be wrong. I, I didn’t watch it myself, and I may be wrong. It may have been behind closed doors and opened this, Lego for sure was behind closed doors. Um, and there’s been a lot of backwards and forwards on that, but, uh, you know, w we’re going to get there.It’s just gonna take a little bit longer.Gavin: [00:37:47] Well, I really appreciate your time. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast. And, um, uh, I hope everyone appreciates the list that you’ve put together. Excuse me. Cause it’s, uh, it’s great and, and your insights really helps it make, um, makes it for me, that’s for sure.Murray: [00:38:02] Well, that’s, I’m delighted today, Gavin, and I hope everybody gets a chance to watch some of these documentaries.</article></body>

PODCAST | EP #57 | Top 10 Sports Documentaries You Missed

Recorded LIVE | May 20th, 2020

The passion that Murray speaks about the 10 sports documentaries he has picked is infectious. See the list below. Follow Murray on Twitter at @murraybarnett and me at @gavinmcgarry

We also did a bonus list of 12 ESPN documentaries from when Murray worked at the company. The lists are in no particular order.

On the podcast, Murray highlights his super faves.

Bonus Murray’s Best Ever ESPN Documentaries 1. Kings Ransom — NHL’s Wayne Gretsky’s controversial move to the LA Kings 2. No Crossover: The Trial of Allen Iverson 3. 9.79–1988 100m Olympic Final 4. The 16th Man — 1995 Rugby World Cup 5. June 17th 1994 — OJ 6. The Two Escobars -The 1994 FIFA World Cup and the tragedy of Andres Escobar 7. Jordan Rides the Bus — Michael Jordan plays Minor League Baseball 8. Unmatched — Evert and Navratilova 9. Once Brothers — NBA players torn apart by politics — Croatian Drazen Petrovic and Serbian Vlade Divac 10. No Mas — Sugar Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran in the 1980’s 11. When the Garden was Eden — 1970’s New York Knicks 12. White, Blue and White — Ricky Villa and Ossie Ardiles at Tottenham Hotspur during the Falklands crisis

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT (Not perfect. Just a guide.)

Gavin: [00:00:00] Hey, it’s Gavin. It’s May 20th it’s Wednesday, it’s 1146 in the. Morning, actually here in mammoth lakes, California. I’m five hours North of Los Angeles and on the line I have with me, Murray Barnett, you’ve probably heard him in a couple of our other earlier podcasts. Out of the 55 or 56 I’ve done, he was the first podcast I ever did was Marie kindly on March 25th decided to come on with me and we talked about the sports business and he’s back.

Welcome, Murray.

Murray: [00:00:31] Hey, Gavin, how are you?

Gavin: [00:00:32] I’m good. Alright, so, uh, what I wanted to do is I want, you are a deep in the sports business and, uh, you recently sent me something, um, where you outlined the top 10, uh, great sports documentaries that you. Or the general public may not have heard about. And I’m going to read out the 10 so that people can see them.

And then we’re going to talk about them. Cause they’re just a such a great list. And I’m not even in the sports business and I want to see like a bunch of them. And I’ve only seen a couple, which is phenomenal. So number one. A Sunday in hell. Now these are in no particular order. Marie has sent them to me, right?

They’re not, they’re there. They’re just the ones that you pick. Well, let me start first. Why did you pick these ones? What was the method behind it? Because you left out a lot of big ones and there were reasons for that.

Murray: [00:01:22] Well, firstly, the list is largely in alphabetical order, although I noticed that I swapped one out, and that’s why the Barkley marathons is not second.

It’s actually the last one on the list because I’d swapped something out at the last minute. Um, but I, I’m a big fan of the sports documentary, and especially with the Jordan. The last answer, I thought it was a interesting time to kind of. Look back over some of the documentaries I’d really enjoyed. And you know, documentaries, sports documentaries are sort of having a bit of a Renaissance at the moment.

What with the center? The Senate documentary, a Diego Maradona also from our seats, Cambodia. Uh, and a few others, uh, OJ made in America was brought out last year, I think, or the year before and won an Oscar. So, you know, there’s been lots of great sports documentaries out there, but I wanted to try and dig a bit deeper and kind of unearth some ones that may be.

People hadn’t heard of, but were still really great documentaries and I kind of, in order to make sure that I sort of really reached as far and wide as I possibly could, I gave myself some rules and the rules were as follows. More or less, nothing from the last 10 10 years. Although there are a couple of small exceptions, no more than a once one sport could appear in the list.

Oh, sorry. Each sport could only appear once in the list and no soccer documentary at all. So those are the sort of the guiding principles. And you know, some of these were ones which were favorites of mine already. And some of them, some of them were ones which I sort of discovered as I was going through this process.

But you know, I also thought like, you know, in lockdown, what better way to pass at the time than to sort of educate yourself about some amazing thoughts and some amazing documentaries and stories that maybe you haven’t heard of. Rather than watching a rerun of modern family again.

Gavin: [00:03:13] Okay. Now you’re based in the UK, so some of these may be a little bit different for people, but I’m going to say them anyway.

The number one is a Sunday in hell in 1976 YouTube deep water, 2006 that’s on Amazon prime, Dogtown and Z boys. 2001 which I’m a huge skateboarder and that’s a skateboard documentary and it’s really good. Do you believe in miracles? 2001 on YouTube. Freedom’s fury. 2006 not applicable. Uh, Iverson 2014 on Netflix.

Salute 2008 on Amazon prime. Sons of Cuba, 2009 Amazon prime. Number nine, TT closer to the edge. Amazon prime. And then number 10 Barkley marathons. The race that eats its young 2014 Amazon prime. Now, a lot of people are listening to these and say, I’ve never heard of any of these. What sports are they? So let’s start with number one, a Sunday in hell.

Tell me about that. 1976 which sport is it and what’s it about?

Murray: [00:04:05] So this is about a famous one day cycle race that happens in Northern France called the Perry Ruby. And it’s renowned as being one of the toughest, uh, psych one day cycle races in the world. And this is just a beautiful. Film shot in 1976.

It’s got some great music and it just kind of takes you back to an era when sort of sport wasn’t quite so professional. It is as it is today. Um, but the, the toil, the toil, and the, uh, the hardships that the cyclists go through as ju just as relevant then as they are today. And it’s just, it kind of, it transports me to a kind of a different.

A different era in life and, and, uh, just a fascinating snapshots and some great fashion, uh, to go to boots as well.

Gavin: [00:04:50] Now, these types of, uh, how long are on average? These documentaries, there are all these all like 90 minute, like, or there are many of them episodic.

Murray: [00:05:00] Yeah, they’re, they’re all like one off. So it will between 60 and 60 minutes and two hours.

Nice. Okay.

Gavin: [00:05:06] So the second one is deep water. 2006 Oh yeah, let’s go. Are you, you told me why, I’m sorry. Adapt there for a second. Why you’d like to Sunday and Helen and I’m definitely gonna watch that from 1976 it was off as you probably shot on film. So it’s standard definition and it probably looks really nice and beautiful.

Number two is deep water. 2006 what’s the sport and why did you choose it?

Murray: [00:05:28] My favorite on the list, and it’s a, again, it’s kind of a classic, it’s about a round the world, like, uh, around the world sailing race in 1968, uh, that went to and from, uh, the UK. Uh, first it was the first ever around the world, nonstop solo competition.

And it’s just. Fascinating because a, it’s just very, very well made by the team that did, uh, touching the void, which some, some listeners may have seen, which is about the, um, about a famous pair climbing a mountain in South America and sort of the problems that they encountered. So it’s got a great sense of drama to it.

But it’s also just about, uh, what it means to be human flaws and all. And it’s about, uh, uh, I won’t spoil it too much, but let’s just say that there’s an amateur who takes part, who’s woefully under prepared for it. And just to kind of. Telling part of his journey and what they’ve been able to recount about what happened to him during this, this time.

You know, in an era when you didn’t have like GoPros everywhere and you didn’t have like people being able to do live blogging for the middle of the Atlantic and that kind of stuff, I’ve actually done a great job of creating this really compelling narrative to this story, and I just thought it was fascinating.

Gavin: [00:06:44] Nice. Number three is Dogtown and Z boys. 2001 this is an I is one of my favorite documentaries. I actually owned a state skateboard store when I was 16. Um, I got my boards from Dogtown, they came from and Peralta. I moved to Venice, California. Based on this. It has always been my dream to live there, and now I live literally down the street from where this all started.

It’s an amazing documentary. Really great because of about how and why. How these, these, these kids sort of created this amazing, you know, sport. What really resonated for you. Well,

Murray: [00:07:23] I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head. Really. It’s just a very, very well-made documentary about an incredibly interesting piece of sort of skate culture.

And you know, it’s one of those ones where as with a lot of the documentaries on this list. It really doesn’t matter if you’re not a fan of the sport. Um, it has a way to captivate you and draw you in. And again, it’s filmed in this kind of late seventies period and a little bit like a little bit like a Sunday in hell.

And so it harks back to a very different era. It’s got a great soundtrack again, some great fashion, and it’s just a captivating story that kind of draws you in into who the characters are. And. And you know, again, as, as coming with a lot of these documentaries, they’re expert filmmakers who have really been able to get under the skin of the subject matter and bring the drama to life and the characters involved in those sports to life.

And, and so it’s just been one of my favorite films since that, since it first came out.

Gavin: [00:08:20] And it’s also on Netflix or anyone could see it there. Number four is, do you believe in miracles? 2001 YouTube. What was the sport and why’d you like it?

Murray: [00:08:29] So this is, uh, ice hockey, which I’m sure is very dear to your heart.

Famous time, famous time that the, uh, that the U S team finally beat the Soviet team in 1980. But it’s very much that whole, uh, evoking that whole era of kind of, uh, of the cold war and Reagan and Gorbachev and kind of that, that, that whole period of time. But it’s also just about like that the classic sports story of the plucky.

I’m the dogs who through grit and determination beat the, the, the, the, the team that should have, that should have absolutely crushed them and indeed had crushed them a few days before. The. Before the Olympics started. And just, you know, if you’re not sitting on your edge by the, uh, on the edge of your seat, by the time it gets to the last minute of regular time and the match, you know, you’re just not, it’s just not human.

Gavin: [00:09:20] Now I noticed this one was done in 2001, it was, it’s also on YouTube, so there’s a few, there’s quite a few that you’ve picked here that are available for free that people won’t, I guess these two, do you believe in miracles and Sunday and hell, both on YouTube? Let’s move on to number five. Freedoms. Fury 2006 but it’s not, it’s really hard to find anywhere apparently.

Cause you’ve put an a here. Um, tell me why you like it. Um, and uh, what sport it’s about, but also where people might be able to find it.

Murray: [00:09:47] So what’s covered with a number of these documentaries and indeed the documentaries that I really like, it tends to be ones that weave in a lot about the politics of the era or, uh, uh, see sports as a paradigm of, of what was happening in society at the time.

And this is just an incredible, uh, story about. How the Hungarian national team, uh, were pitted against the Russian national team. Well, the Soviet national team at the Melbourne Olympics in 56, less than a month after the Soviets had rolled into Soviet tanks, had rolled into Budapest and crushed the Hungarian uprising.

And so. The political connotations that existed during this match, um, meant that it was much more than just, uh, just water polo. And the older, the Hungarians were at the time, the best team and water polo, you know, it was much more than just about the sport. And indeed it’s called the blood in the water match cause it’s incredibly violent.

And it was incredibly, uh, grueling match for all involved. And you know, this whole story is told with the 13 remaining. Participants for some from both sides, and it’s just very a fascinating, against that political backdrop, you can find some reasonably extensive clips of it on YouTube, but I wasn’t able to find anywhere that was showing the full documentary, but it’s, if you can find it as well worth seeking out.

Gavin: [00:11:14] Uh, freedom’s fury, it’s called. And if you do find it, please let us know so that we can let everyone else know where, where they can find it. If it’s, if it’s buried in YouTube summer, that would be really great. But, uh, just, you know, throwing in water polo is just fantastic cause it’s, you know, it’s such an out there sport.

Let’s move to number six, Iverson 2014 it’s on Netflix. Um, I mean, I pretty sure I know why you’re going to say you like this, but what’s the sport and why do you like it?

Murray: [00:11:38] So I think it’s actually a type, I think it’s actually on Amazon prime here in the UK. I’m not sure what it’s on in the States, but you know, it’s interesting with the hype that’s going on around the last dance and Michael Jordan at the moment, you know, Al Iverson was always somebody that really interested me.

I worked at the NBA. Brought it towards the end of Jordan’s career, and it always interested me, this kind of idea of, of Iverson being the antihero. You know, Jordan was the one that, you know, uh, uh, in England we call it like the Housewives favorite. You know, it’s the one that you could bring home to your mother.

He’s the one that you could just sit and chat with your dad. But all of a sudden it’s the one that you’d want to be, you know, smoking a joint without in the garden or something like that. You know, he’s the, he’s the one that you really wanted to hang out with. And he was just electric. And he talks very candidly at lucidly about some of the issues that he went through in his life, including.

You know, a number of people that effectively saved him from, you know, a life of crime. But it also, you know, as a, as a, as an English white guy, it kind of shines an interesting light for me on the urban culture and what it’s, you know, at least what his perception of what it’s like to grow up. Black in and a, and a relatively poor neighborhood.

And you know how there was a certain amount of racism that still existed when he was growing up. So, I mean, there’s lots of aspects of this that, you know, he, he, he is much more of a, uh, an influence on the culture of NBA than Jordan ethanol was. He’s, I think, much more of a, of an influence in terms of, you know, if you were a real efficient auto, I think you probably want it to be over.

So you thought Jordan was a superstar and probably the best that’s ever played. But you kind of want it to be Iverson cause he was the cool one. And so I think there’s kind of lots of interests, lots of interesting different narratives going through this whole film and, and, and different strands that they pick up on about him, which, which I found fascinating

Gavin: [00:13:30] here in the U S it is available on YouTube and Amazon and a few other places you can rent it.

So it is a rental. Um, and yeah, I mean, I agree. I don’t know enough about Iverson. I would really like to know more. So it’s great that you put this on the list. Number seven is salute. 2008 it’s available on Amazon prime. Why do you like this one?

Murray: [00:13:49] So this is, uh, regarding the, uh, uh, Peter norm and the Australian that finished second or the 200 meters at the Olympics in 68 in Mexico.

And, uh, obviously famous for the Tommy Smith, John Carlos glove fist, uh, black power salute. And, you know, it’s something that every time I see that iconic photo, I always wondered, like, I wonder. What’s the story behind the white guy on the podium? And I came across this a while ago, and it’s just fascinating, you know?

Well, you know, you’re right. This is how politics connect with sport. And it was interesting, um, you know, fall from being an innocent bystander. He was actually quite heavily involved. And this is quite an absorbing. Documentary. Yeah. Yeah. Looking at it from his perspective and interviews, all three of them, and they are, they remained friends to this day.

And ultimately, I guess, you know, that’s another amazing thing about, that’s what the Olympic movement is all about. It’s about, they can, you know, different races coming from different sides of the world. And yet they all believe in this Olympic ideal of equality and freedom for all. And so, you know, it’s just a quite a kind of a.

An interesting political story and an interesting story about friendship.

Gavin: [00:14:59] Number eight is sons of Cuba. 2009 this is boxing, right? And I have heard about this. I hear it’s a very, very good documentary. It’s, it’s available on Amazon prime, so if you have Amazon, you can get it for free. I am watching a lot on Amazon right now.

Um, they have, they’re, they’re doing a very good job of putting a lot of great things up there. But tell us, you know, w w what this is about and why you like it.

Murray: [00:15:21] Yeah, I mean, for those people that have seen hoop dreams, this is quite similar in terms of, uh, it follows three young, uh, Cuban, uh, kids, uh, at a boxing Academy and Havana, uh, as they train towards the, uh, under twelves national boxing championship.

And. You know, in Cuba, boxing is a way of, they’ve had a phenomenal, um, Olympic and, uh, amateur boxing, uh, record. They’ve won 73 medals at the Olympics. 37 of those were gold. Um, so just probably the number one nation for boxing in the world. And boxing is a way in which, you know, poor Cubans can, can, uh, make some, uh, make a little bit of money and, and, and gain some stature for their, for their families.

But the interesting thing about this is. This was all filmed during the period when Castro took a step back from, from leading Cuba, and actually three of their boxes defected to the U S through their gold medalist effected to the U S so it’s got another interesting political connotation to it, but it’s just a, you know, an incredibly well tell, told story.

That gets under the skin of something that you don’t normally get to see. And what more can you ask from a full, from a documentary than to give you a window on something that you, that you never normally say

Gavin: [00:16:38] as we wind down the last two here, I just great to hear you speak. You speak with such passion, you just love these films and it really makes me want to go and watch all of them.

And I’ve only seen, it looks like one here. So this is, this is. My wife is not going to be happy when I’m going to be spending all this time. Why don’t you sports style? You guys are all ashamed. You’re just watching sports documentaries. But I think that you, you really, so let’s get you really make some great points here.

So number nine, uh, TT closer to the edge. 2011. It’s a rental on Amazon prime. Tell me the sport and why you like this one.

Murray: [00:17:09] So if you’re going to watch one on this list, this will be the one I’d probably put number one. Um, this is probably in my all time, top five documentaries ever. Uh, it’s about a race that takes place in the United, in the United Kingdom.

It’s called the isle of man TT, which is one, if not the most. Dangerous motorcycle race in the world. It takes place on public roads very little in the way of barriers and, um, uh, and, and safety mechanisms. Uh, but it’s peppered with, uh, amazing characters and really just a fascinating insight into it. In into what drives these people, but also incredibly moving.

Because as you can imagine, every year there are some very serious accidents and the families of those riders have to have to deal with life changing consequences. And yet they come back and, and they celebrate this sport, which means so much to them. And so I just found it very, very fascinating. On a. On a, on a human level.

And it’s got probably my all time favorite, favorite quote from any, uh, documentary I’ve ever seen. And it’s very simple. It’s a, and I’m paraphrasing it ever so slightly, but it’s, uh, uh, you can’t change the hand, the hand that you’re Delta in life, but you can choose how to play the cards. And I always thought that was such a lovely sentiment.

Gavin: [00:18:34] Oh, wow. That’s great. That is amazing. All right. Number 10, um, Barkley marathons, the race that eats its young 2014 it’s on Amazon prime is a rental. What

Murray: [00:18:48] this is, this is, this is just, this is just absolutely bonkers. It’s, uh, so it’s, uh, two races in one. There’s a fun run, which is 60 miles long.

Gavin: [00:18:58] Wait, wait a minute.

60 miles, fun run. That doesn’t sound like a

Murray: [00:19:01] fun run. Well, they call it the farm run cause the real race is a hundred miles long and you can own and you have to complete the course within 60 hours. And actually it’s not really a race in the sense that so few people have actually completed the race. It’s just about.

Trying to complete it, if you can win bright, but really, you know, you’re already an exalted, uh, uh, if you can actually just even complete it and it’s, again, um, there’s a lot of, uh, fascinating characters involved in the race. You can only take part virus, a very secret, uh, application process. Only 35 people are out to do it a year.

It’s run by some very kind of eccentric characters. And actually, um, uh, how they know that you’ve run the courses that they take, uh, a book and they basically tear pages from this book and they put a certain number of pages. It is, uh, various different checkpoints. And they know that you’ve actually stopped at those checkpoints because you take one sheet of the, of the book from that particular checkpoint, and then you’re able to prove that you actually pass the checkpoint.

But again, you know, fascinating because the reason why. The people do this race is all, is all different. Why that competing is all different and just, you know, um, there’s some kind of, what’s the word? Uh, Shodan Freud or him being able to sit on your couch with a bag of potato, potato chips and watch somebody else running a hundred miles in 60

Gavin: [00:20:26] hours.

I love that you’re converting everything for the American audience. You went, you said soccer off the top when we know it’s football and you’re just a bag of chips. A bag of CR instead of saying crisps for potato chips. I love it. Thank you so much for helping my audience understand the British language.

Okay, so th th this has been an amazing, like, it’s really, really great to be, I’m being very American now using the word amazing, like crazy, which I know the Brits absolutely hate, but at the end of the day, it’s, it’s, it’s really interesting. You know, you’ve pulled the pluck these little gems and there’s so many documentaries out there and to, uh, I w when you, you sent me.

This. I was just like, this is, this is great. I’ve never heard of them. And even if I watch one or two, just having the Pat hearing the passion behind your voice and understanding that this is something that really, you know, resonated with you, it makes me want to watch the more. Now, for everyone who’s listening, you can sign off now if you want, but there is a bonus.

Um, Marie has sent me 12 of the best ever ESPN documentaries. And we’re going to go through them quickly. Not, not, we’re not going to spend as much time as we did on the first 10 of the, of your, of the documentaries. Um, but I’m gonna read them out and then what I’d like to do is that, well, you know, why don’t we do it this way, Marie, we’ll, um, we’ll, I’ll read out and if you can just give me a sentence as to why it’s the big ESPN.

Why this, these are ESPN documentaries that you really like. Are they in any particular order? Cause you’ve got 12 here.

Murray: [00:21:55] Well. So just to, just to start off with, you know, I spent 11 years working at ESPN, and so these came out when I was at ESPN, or the first series came out while I was there. And it’s just a, uh, an incredibly passionate group of people, uh, making, um, uh, movies or documentaries about.

Subjects, which they were very passionate about. So in most of these documentaries, that all comes across because the way that this started was not that there was a predetermined list of this, this is what the subject matter is going to be. They were just told, Hey, look. Write down the stories and sport that you want to beat, you want to have told, and we will figure out how we’re going to get the rights to do it.

How are we going to get you the right team to make it? And so they got amazing directors and amazing filmmakers together to do these passion jokes. And so it really comes across when you watch these. Just how much, um, how much care and attention to detail these filmmakers have gone into making these, um, I haven’t put them in any particular order, but there are three or four.

Or in which I can point out as we go along, which are my absolute absolute fives

Gavin: [00:23:00] now, how do you see them? Do you have to have ESPN to see, like how do you see them over in the UK or can you, do you like how would people go and see these ESPN documentaries?

Murray: [00:23:09] So there is an ESPN app that’s available here in the UK.

ESPN plus, which I think has most of these documentaries on them. And I think, you know, in the States probably, I haven’t actually had to look. A bunch of these you can probably find on YouTube and you know, just a little bit of random searching. I’m sure that most of these you can find, uh, somewhere on one of your services.

Gavin: [00:23:32] Nice. And what I’ll do as a, anyone that’s listening is that we’ll also put this into the description. I’ll put the top 10, um. Uh, documentaries, and also put the best ever ESPN documentary so you can find them there. Okay. Here we go. And many of them are self explanatory, so I just might move on quite quickly.

But the Kings, the number one is King’s grandson NHLs Wayne Gretzky’s controversial move to the LA Kings. And me being a Canadian, I remember this day. Um, and this, I’ve, I’ve. I’ve actually, I think I’ve may have seen this documentary of many years ago, but it was, it was really good. Um, the next one is number two, no crossover at the trial of Allen Iverson.

So there seems to be a bit of a theme here around Iverson, which is interesting. Well, actually,

Murray: [00:24:11] with a number of these documentaries, they ended up triggering some of the other documentaries that were on the list. So actually the trial of Allen Iverson, that was something which then led to the Allen Iverson film.

So probably not, don’t need to dwell on that other than set covers a lot of the same subject matter, but a little bit of a narrower approach in terms of a specific incident and Allen IVUS life that was kind of shaped who he became.

Gavin: [00:24:36] And the nine, seven, nine. Um, I’m going to take a guest to, this was Ben Johnson, the 1980 800 meter Olympic final, um, because one

Murray: [00:24:44] of my.

Sorry on this. Probably one of my three favorite ones. Four favorite ones on this list in the sense that, you know, since that final, I think all but two or maybe all but three of the people that took part have been, uh, have had some kind of doping offense. So. No, it really puts it into context. And not only that, you know, it’s easy to see Ben Johnson as the, uh, as the bad guy in all of this.

But I, I, I feel that he was just incredibly manipulated and this goes into a lot of explanation and, you know, definitely wrong that he did. The eat that he took trucks of course, but I think there’s a lot more to the story than, than meets the eye. And a lot of it is told in us in this film.

Gavin: [00:25:28] Number four is the 16th man, 1995 rugby world cup.

Now you were, you worked for a world rugby, right? You, you, you there. So is that why this is on the list or, and you are, I can’t see, can’t see. Marie Marie is like the size of a rugby player. It’s like.

Murray: [00:25:47] To fight like a rugby player, I think is what you mean. Um, so like this is, most people have probably seen the, uh, the Matt Damon film, uh, Invictus, and this is the real life account of that movie and what it means, what it meant, uh, for the unification of Africa and of South Africa, and the role that Nelson Mandela played in that.

And it’s. Just, it’s, it’s even more powerful because it’s true than watching a movie about it. So you know, to see the actual people talking about it, it’s just a phenomenal

Gavin: [00:26:21] number five is June 17th, 1994 Oh, Jay

Murray: [00:26:26] doesn’t need any say anything more. It’s the slow car chase that we’ve all seen, but it was just wondering what you were going to say.

But it, but it shows it in the context of all everything that was happening that day in sports and where that was leading up to. And so just again, a Seminole moment and in sports and you know, such a fascinating story.

Gavin: [00:26:48] Nice. Number six is the two Escobars, the 1994 FIFA world cup and the tragedy of Andres Escobar.

Tell me about that.

Murray: [00:26:56] Yeah. So he played, he was a defender for the Colombian national team, and he missed the penalty and, uh, was subsequently shot in, um, uh, when he returned to Columbia and, uh, and was killed. And this film. Talk some, some about that, but also about the role of his, uh, unrelated namesake, Pablo Escobar, in even getting the Colombian national team to the 1994, uh, world cup.

So, you know, just a, again, a very fascinating story and yeah. Probably one of the most famous of the ESPN documentaries or the most lauded of the SPN documentaries.

Gavin: [00:27:35] As we moved to number seven, we moved back to the United States and Michael Jordan, Michael, it’s just called Jordan rides the bus. Michael Jordan plays minor league baseball.

There was a lot of controversy around why he left a basketball, and I have not seen the new documentary, uh, but my understanding is they don’t talk about the fact that. That he was gambling on games and that was, he was, he was given a nice little exit. Um, it’s sports law. No one’s really confirmed it, but, um, it seems that was the reason why he went down to the minor league and what I did, what I’ve always sort of understood, um, that if you do not learn in either cricket or baseball.

To see the seams of a ball being thrown at 80 or 90 miles an hour before you are 10 years old. You are, your brain is not able to do it. And this may be the reason why Michael Jordan had so many problems in the minor league is that he couldn’t see the ball. He couldn’t see the seam, and that it seems to be a really important part of it.

Why do you like this documentary?

Murray: [00:28:29] Well, just, yeah, fascinating to see somebody, it was the master of his sport. Trying, you know, trying to make it in a completely different sport. And, you know, some of it is hubris and some of it is a bloody mindedness. And, uh, yeah, just an interesting story that has also been dealt with a little bit in the end up in the last answer.

Gavin: [00:28:49] Number eight is unmatched Everett and advertised over tennis.

Murray: [00:28:53] Yeah. So this one was an interesting one. It’s a great conversation between the two of them. They’re, you know, they’re there, they were rivals, but also huge friends and just, you know, you could listen to them for hours talking about their relationship and what it was like to be at the top of their game.

And just a very, you know, positive, nice story, if you like her. Yeah. A pleasant way to pause an hour.

Gavin: [00:29:16] Number nine is once brothers, NBA players torn apart by politics, Croatian Darson, Petrovich and Serbian VOD. Sorry, Petra Vick, is it? Yeah. And Serbian

Murray: [00:29:27] doesn’t dress. Dress on Petrovich and bloody diva.

Gavin: [00:29:31] Okay.

And, but there are Serbian and Croatian, um, and clearly I can’t say their names, so that’s great. Um, so I apologize to them, but I mean, this was in the nineties. This was a big deal. I’m being, being Canadian. We had a lot of, uh, people from Czechoslovakia come over, uh, the Croatians and the Serbs. And, um, even in Canada there was division, but I remember playing, you know, uh, soccer and with, with, you know, kids who had come from that war.

So, um, why do you like this one?

Murray: [00:30:00] So it’s the theme of, you know, uh, politics and sports again, and, you know, they were, um. They were teammates on the Yugoslav national team. And then as

Gavin: [00:30:12] nationally, I met Yugoslavia. I’m so sorry.

Murray: [00:30:15] Yeah, the on the, um, and they were, when they had the civil war, they were kind of put on opposite sides.

And you know, used, used by their respect of governments for. Very political reasons, and you can see how much it hurts, especially, you know, draws on. Petrovich passed away. So, you know, it was, um, it’s, it’s just a great, great, great story about, you know, friendships torn apart by politics.

Gavin: [00:30:43] And down to our last three, 10, 11, 12.

Number 10 is no mass, uh, sugar Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran in the 1980s. Um, and, and I have heard about this as a very good documentary. Uh, number 11, when the garden was Eden, 1970s, New York Knicks, again, a little bit more basketball. So ESPN obviously has a queen, uh, quite a good basketball, um, uh, bent.

And then number 12. White, blue and white, Ricky Villa and, uh, Aussie are well taught. Well, this is your team. No wonder, I’m just reading this out. It’s like Tottenham Hotspurs during the Falkland islands crisis. So tell us a bit about those three. No mass. When the garden, when the garden was eaten and, and white, blue and white.

Murray: [00:31:24] So, Namaste. That’s a great landed. And Roberto Duran pound for pound, the greatest boxers that ever, that have ever boxed and just had some Titanic battles. And you know, you, you go online and you find any clip of them, uh, boxing against each other and it was just spectacular action. No matter how you feel about boxing, it was just a spectacular action.

So, um, you know. That’s just a great, great piece of visceral entertainment.

Gavin: [00:31:53] Cause you said you had three, you had three that you liked is no mass. One of the ones, I mean you, you talked about, you know, there, you said there were three that you really liked out of the ESPN documentaries.

Murray: [00:32:04] Yeah. I mean, they’re all really good.

So there’s even a bunch of Shaun on here, but probably my three favorites. Uh, on nine, seven, nine, uh, the ADA Olympic a hundred meters final once brothers, and probably the 16th man, although white, blue and white, uh, about my team. Tottenham Hotspur is fantastic. It was actually not a full length documentary.

It’s more a documentary short, so that probably. Yeah. If I was picked for that would be that the fourth one, um, when the garden was Eden was just about the great Knicks of the seventies. And again, just a great slice of life. Um, and back when, you know, some people can remember when the next, actually we’re a decent basketball team.

Um, others will be too young to remember that. Um, but, but just to, just to dwell on white, blue, and white, for those people that don’t know, it’s. Uh, Tottenham Hotspur is, is like, uh, the nearly man of London soccer team or football teams in the sense that it was quite good for a while in the mid sixties. Um, but since the eclipse by arsenal and Chelsea as well as, you know, the teams outside of London, but in the, uh, in the late, uh, the early eighties, rather, it had got a COO of hiring.

To, or signing to, uh, amazing Argentinian players and Ricky via and Ozzy, our dealers, unfortunately, a couple of years after they arrived, which heralded the arrival of a lot of, or started the trend for a lot of foreigners to come and join the premier league or the English first division as it was at the time.

Um, England went to war, great Britain went to war with, uh, with Argentina and it talks very movingly and. With RBS and via about what it was like to be Argentinian and living in England, especially when they were incredibly loved by Tottenham Hotspur fans and sports fans in general in England. And, um, it ends with them actually going to the Falkland islands because, and I need to get this right.

I think it’s a. Well is the art dealer cousin actually was a conscript who fought on the Falkland islands and died. And so it’s very moving that they, they, they go to the Falkland islands to actually, uh, see his, uh, his, his grave. And, um, you know, at the time, the military you went to, weren’t really telling Argentinians what was actually happening.

So they were kind of caught in this kind of catch 22 situation and actually went to a Paris Parasoma. Uh, the, the French, uh, the Parisian French soccer team, uh, during that period to try and, uh, uh, diffuse the politics of the situation. And again, another example of how politics and sports are so intertwined.

And, you know, I’m fascinated by that juxtaposition between politics and sports.

Gavin: [00:34:51] And it’s a great way to end this off because, uh, thank you so much for putting this together. And, and it’s fascinating. I mean, having someone so deep into sport as your whole career has been. But let’s end off just quickly with this, you know, we’re in the middle of coven.

Um, and you’ve written a couple of other blog posts about politics and sport. Um, just give us an update. It’s now May 20th. Uh, you know, we touched, we talked in March and sport is starting to come back with the Bundesliga in the, in, in football, in Europe. Um, we’re starting to see NASCAR come back here in America.

Uh, no fans allowed yet, but you do talk quite a bit about sports and politics, um, and, and how important sport is and, and how covert has made us realize how important sport is. Um, do you want to just give us a little wrap up of that and where you think we are right now and where we’re going.

Yeah.

Murray: [00:35:42] When we’re moving in the right direction, I think the most important thing is that nobody loses sight of the fact that. You know, surely our health is the number one most important thing. And I suppose we’ll always be there. And if it’s delayed another couple of months, then so be it. But we also know that sports has big business these days and so many leagues and sports, whether, you know, everything from formula one through to through to football and rugby and, uh, and other motor sports, uh, if they don’t.

If, if they, if they don’t go back and start competing, they won’t get paid to drop the TV broadcasters to pay the rights owners. The sponsors will, uh, will put their dollars elsewhere. So in order to keep this to be the massive business that it is, and you know, the sponsorship business and sport alone, which is worth over six.

$40 billion. That was prior to this crisis. It’s projected to drop by as much as 35% during this period. Um, so it’s massive business and that’s why there’s such pressure to go, uh, you know, to go back and to start the legs again. It’s also a massive feelgood factor. You know, they talk about it very openly here in the UK about how, you know.

The government wants the premier league to go back and start playing because it gives people a feeling of normality and that the things are getting better and things are improving. And certainly on this side of the pond, you know, the one thing that everybody’s really missed has been any sort of live content.

It was amazing to see last week how excited people were that the Korean soccer league was coming back. And you know, for the first time ever people were watching the Korean soccer league just because it was finally some live. Soccer to watch, and

Gavin: [00:37:24] we’re their fans. They’re

Murray: [00:37:26] a show how important it is to people.

Yes.

Gavin: [00:37:29] Oh, wow. Okay. Um, so

Murray: [00:37:31] actually I’m not sure, I’m not sure. I might, I might be wrong. I, I didn’t watch it myself, and I may be wrong. It may have been behind closed doors and opened this, Lego for sure was behind closed doors. Um, and there’s been a lot of backwards and forwards on that, but, uh, you know, w we’re going to get there.

It’s just gonna take a little bit longer.

Gavin: [00:37:47] Well, I really appreciate your time. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast. And, um, uh, I hope everyone appreciates the list that you’ve put together. Excuse me. Cause it’s, uh, it’s great and, and your insights really helps it make, um, makes it for me, that’s for sure.

Murray: [00:38:02] Well, that’s, I’m delighted today, Gavin, and I hope everybody gets a chance to watch some of these documentaries.